JH: Right. And I agree, I think for me, oh man so many things. I think a few things I love, we know that learning is ongoing, right? It's continuous, we're talking about a journey and for me, a big part of this is, particularly for white people, you are evolving. Like literally, there is an evolutionary process, your brain cells and synapsis they're firing in new ways that they haven't even before. Part of my struggle in this and sitting at an executive level is sort of watching people, again, this idea that they're unique or that they're different because they have several more Black friends or they've hired a few more people of color than others and that they think they truly are evolved and I'm like, "But, you're not. Stop thinking that you're special." Stop thinking that you're unique because the minute you do that, you start to think that you're better than others, think that you don't have blind spots. We've been talking a lot about blind spots, where are the places were you think you are woke or fo-woke as I like to say. Let's talk about how that plays out in real world.
That for me, those people are actually more dangerous, because they think they know, they think they figured it out, they think they've solved it because they've read one more book than others and those people are dangerous. We as even people of color are always learning in this journey, I'm learning what it means to show up in a different way with one foot in multiple worlds. One foot in the executive team, one foot being a Black woman, well being Black and then being a woman, right? How do you navigate that? I'd love to hear just how are you finding some of the challenges showing up in the work today? The work we have in the building today, how are you finding some of these challenges showing up? The bias, the blind spots, just like what people are missing. One, because their lived experiences are different, but also two, as we look at the advertising industry in corporate America overall, we've watched these numbers from some of these holding companies that are finally, like emperor has on no clothes, showing what their diversity stats are and we know there is not enough.
Like end stop, we knew there wasn't enough and now we have seen the numbers to back it up. How are you seeing this show up in the work today?
RM: I know for us, Nishat and I, we're on the same team and I think something that we often talk about and something that we try to make sure that always shows up in the work is how we representing a diverse team when we cast our project and also make sure that diverse thinking is applied to the projects that we do. Because for so long there have been more homogenous project teams. As a company that has values and says what their values are, it's our responsibility as leads on the team, but not just us as people of color leads, but all leads to make sure that those values and commitments are being shown through in the work and how we cast teams and how we make sure that representation is there and the thinking and the work and honestly just the people in the room.